But that isn't the question. Grognards (like me) often complain and criticize 5E for being nerfed to the rooftops. Now, I'm pretty sure that's an accurate criticism, but is it really? I could be wrong. I could be hilariously, wildly, laughably wrong. (I know, I know, hard to believe but the truth is the truth!)
And yes, I know 5.5E is about to drop, but we'll just assume for now that there won't be a significant difference in difficulty level.
So I think it's time for as empirical a test as I can run. This is a project that will likely take a very, very long time but I think even if it never gets finished we'll have an answer to the question: Is 5E really easier than 1E?
The Setting:
So here's how I propose to test that. I have two copies of the classic module The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan. One is the original version printed in 1980 by TSR for the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game (1E).
The other is the revision for 5th Edition published in the Tales From the Yawning Portal book in 2017 by Wizards of the Coast.
I am using this module because as a DM, I ran my group through it once, but they lost interest in the dungeon because it was difficult and the nature of the adventure was one of simply going after the treasure, not being heroes that save the day, so I think they just got bored.
The Rules:
I will use two sets of characters: one 1st Edition and one 5th Edition. They will be as identical as I can make them. Now, since I am going to solo this, I can't run it as a regular DM/players dynamic so here are the rules I will follow:
- I will not use any foreknowledge of the module. (I.E. No metagaming)
- I will run both adventuring parties through the dungeon at the same pace, following the same route and making the same decisions.
- It will be possible for one party to deviate slightly from the other. For example, one group may successfully find a secret door while the other does not. I may make an exception and fudge the result if finding the secret door results in things becoming so different that it's no longer possible to compare the two adventures 1:1.
- If a PC is killed then he/she is killed. No fudging unless, as above, it results in the whole experiment being skewed.
- I will document the entire experiment here on this blog as I go. I'll add my impressions along the way so that even if I never finish the module, we can at least get a pretty good idea of which way the results are going.
- I am not going to make the hit and damage rolls 1:1 between the two. Part of this test is to get a feel for which system is easier by determining whether it's easier to hit and do lots of damage. Also, tactics will be different where PC abilities are different. A 1E Fighter does not have an equivalent of the Second Wind ability, for example.
The Criteria:
So how will we judge which is easier? It may be tempting to use a metric like XP to determine which party is more successful, but I don't think that would be very helpful. The XP tables truly are on a different scale. For example, a 1st level 5E fighter needs 300XP to reach level 2. A 1st level 1E Fighter needs 2,000 XP to reach level 2. The XP for monsters also varies so that wouldn't be helpful. I think we'll go by the following:
- Casualties. If there are more deaths on one party than the other, that would suggest the answer as to which is more difficult. Mind you, sometimes you can have just really bad luck on die rolls which could skewer the results, but we'll take note of that if it happens.
- Treasure. The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan is primarily a dungeon crawl for treasure, so we can compare the haul from both parties.
- Time. It may be that both parties complete the dungeon without losing anybody or having a significant difference in treasure hauled. In that case, the party that takes the most in-game time will be the tiebreaker.
Conversion notes, 5E to 1E
- I will retain the level and proportion of XP. So if a character is leel 5 and is 50% of the way to level 6, then the 1E character will also.
- Ability scores will be retained.
- Equipment will be the same. If a particular piece of equipment exists on one edition and not the other, then the closest replacement will be used.
- Hit points will be the same, as long as it's mathematically possible for a character of the same level in both editions to be the same. That isn't always the case. For example, a 2nd level Magic-User can have an absolute maximum of 12 Hit Points in 1E. In 2E, a level 2 Wizard can have up to 22. In those cases, the PC with too many Hit Points will have their Hit Point max reduced to what is possible.
- The Paladin class, in 1E, was originally a subclass of Fighter. It was later changed to be a subclass of Cavalier in the Unearthed Arcana book. I will use the Fighter version. This version is more similar to the later versions orf Paladin since the Cavalier did not make it past 1E (Except as a Fighter kit in 2E, and the less said about that the better... And I'm sure there's a 3E Prestige Class for it but... yeah.)
- The Paladin class in 1E requires a minimum Wisdom score of 13. My 5E Paladin does not meet that requirement. Since the Paladin can still mechanically function in 1E with a Wis of 9 I am going to overlook that for the sake of keeping the characters as similar as possible. It is worth noting, however.
- In listing the PCs below, for Class and level, I'll use the format "Class (Subclass)" for 5E and "Class (Level Title)" for 1E
- If a PC is of a race that isn't playable in 1E, they'll default to Elf.
Our Heroes
I'm not going to list out every single aspect of the characters below for brevity, but you'll notice some differences in Hit Points and such. That's because Ability scores give different bonuses in each of these two editions (5E bonuses are always higher.)
So, without further ado, let's meet our champions.
The Party Leader:
Mikhael of Lyonesse
Level 5 Human Paladin (Oath of the Ancients) Level 5 Human Paladin (Warder)
Current XP: 11,673 Current XP: 37,350
Armor Class: 21 Armor Class: -1
Proficiency Bonus: +3 THAC0: 16
Alignment: Lawful Good Alignment: Lawful Good
Hit Point Maximum: 56 Hit Points: 56
Main Weapon: Longsword +1 Main Weapon: Longsword +1
Combat Support:
Stone, Lord of Utreshimon's End
Level 5 Human Fighter (Battlemaster) Level 5 Human Fighter (Swashbuckler)
Current XP: 12,466 Current XP: 31,165
Armor Class: 20 Armor Class: 2
Proficiency Bonus: +3 THAC0: 16
Alignment: Lawful Neutral Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Hit Point Maximum: 55 Hit Points: 50
Main Weapon: Warhammer +2 (2h) Main Weapon: Lucern Hammer +2
Healer:
Nathair Zmeya
Level 6 Yuan-Ti Cleric (Trickery) Level 6 Elf Cleric (Canoness)
Current XP: 22,664 Current XP: 54,196
Armor Class: 19 Armor Class: 2
Proficiency Bonus: +3 ` THAC0: 18
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Hit Point Maximum: 53 Hit Points: 53
Main Weapon: Mace +1 Main Weapon: Horseman's Mace +1
Magical Support:
Weyland Yutani
Level 5 Half-Elf Wizard (Necromancer) Level 5 Half-Elf Magic-User (Thaumaturgist)
Current XP: 13,026 Current XP: 37,217
Armor Class: 17 Armor Class: 5
Proficiency Bonus: +3 THAC0: 20
Alignment: Chaotic Good Alignment: Chaotic Good
Hit Point Maximum: 28 Hit Points: 20
Main Weapon: Quarterstaff Main Weapon: Quarter Staff
Specialist:
Stig The Wanderer
Level 5 Human Rogue (Thief) Level 5 Human Thief (Burglar)
Current XP: 12,874 Current XP: 18,391
Armor Class: 18 Armor Class: 3
Proficiency Bonus: +3 THAC0: 19
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Hit Point Maximum: 39 Hit Points: 30
Main Weapon: Shortsword +1 Short Sword +1
Support:
Merry Morton the Musical Minstrel of Mirabar
Level 7 Human Bard (Lore) Level 7 Human Bard (Troubador)
Current XP: 30,660 Current XP: 54,105
Armor Class: 16 Armor Class: 6
Proficiency Bonus: +3 THAC0: 16
Alignment: Neutral Good Alignment: Neutral Good
Hit Point Maximum: 61 Hit Points: 56
Main Weapon: Rapier +1 Main Weapon: Long Sword +1
For purposes of this write-up, I'll begin at the entrance to the dungeon in Part II!
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