We begin the adventure.
Just to be clear, this isn't meant as a review of the editions, or of the adventure. I'm not going to spend time on the elements that are purely roleplay or irrelevant to the difficulty of the editions. If you'd like detailed commentary on the module itself, there are loads of them out there. This is just our experiment on adventuring difficulty.
Maps and illustrations will show the 1E version on the left and the 5E version on the right.
The most observant will notice that both of these
images depict the same scene.
Note that the maps both have the same compass directions in terms of how the dungeon is oriented, but the 5E map had the North pointing to the left of the page. I want to have North pointing up, so for the sake of consistency, I'll rotate the 5E map 90 degrees right to align the compass roses.
Yes, yes. We all know 5E is prettier.
The scale of both maps is 1 square = 5'
So, let's head on in...
Not So Fast...
One feature of this dungeon is that the lower levels are filled with poisonous gas. The way this gas works is different between editions:
1E: The gas inflicts 1-6 hit points of damage per turn (A turn is 10 minutes.)
5E: The gas inflicts 3(1d6) poison damage every hour.
Various means, both magical and nonmagical, will mitigate the effects.
Area 1: The Vault of Chicomoztoc
This room is... complex.
The party enters the dungeon through a sinkhole/cave in and are sealed inside.
5E:
Not only is it dark, but light sources don't penetrate far due to the gas in the air. Each PC lights a torch, casts Light, etc. to have his or her own source of illumination.
Having the lowest wisdom of the group, Mikhael decides to head straight over to alcove D and picks up a figurine of a red warrior without hesitation. He examines it briefly and then puts it back on the display.
Stig, seeing that it had no adverse effect, decides to pick out one or two figurines to keep as souvenirs. He searches each alcove in turn until he makes his way to niche C and, after failing an investigation check doesn't notice the valuable material used in some of the figurines. He eventually settles on the panther in the central display and since he likes panthers, slips it into his pack. Nobody else is near and so they do not notice him doing this, except Nathair who is also at the center display. She sees him but doesn't care.
Nathair examines the center display and, after a successful Perception check with Advantage (with help from Stig who is right there with her) notices that the scout figurine is not holding a staff but an actual key. She checks around to see if there are any noticeable traps on the display and, finding none takes the key off of the scout figurine. She pockets the key and puts the figurine back.
Meanwhile, Weyland is examining the door and rolls an Investigation check. Succeeding, he notices the keyhole. "Hey!" he says. "I think we can get out of here if we find a..."
"Key?"
Weyland is startled as Nathair is suddenly beside him, brandishing the key she found in the center display. She does this a lot and he hates it because she manages to get him every single time. Nathair finds it terribly amusing. The party regroups and Weyland checks again to be sure there are no hidden traps. He makes another Investigation check and succeeds. There are no traps to be found so Nathair inserts the key into the lock and turns it. The door opens easily and the party emerges from the room.
The party spent a little over a minute in the room and has not yet been affected by the poison gas.
1E:
Not only is it dark, but light sources don't penetrate far due to the gas in the air. Each PC lights a torch to have his or her own source of illumination.
Having the lowest wisdom of the group, Mikhael decides to head straight over to alcove D and picks up a figurine of a red warrior without hesitation. He examines it briefly and then puts it back on the display.
Stig, seeing that it had no adverse effect, decides to pick out one or two figurines to keep as souvenirs. He searches each alcove in turn and can see the figurines are somewhat valuable, but he doesn't bother to collect them because they are fragile and likely to break once inside his pack anyway. Still, he wants a souvenir. He eventually settles on the panther in the central display and since he likes panthers, slips it into his pack. Nobody else is near so they do not notice him doing this.
Nathair examines the center display and notices that the scout figurine is not holding a staff but an actual key. She asks Stig to check the display for traps on the display. Stig finds none. (He failed his Find Traps roll but there is no trap so it doesn't matter.) Nathair takes the key off of the scout figurine. She pockets the key and puts the figurine back.
Meanwhile, Weyland is examining the door he notices the keyhole. "Hey!" he says. "I think we can get out of here if we find a..."
"Key?"
Weyland is startled as Nathair is suddenly beside him, brandishing the key she found in the center display. She does this a lot and he hates it because she manages to get him every single time. Nathair finds it terribly amusing.
The party has now spent enough time breathing the poison gas that it starts to take its toll. Each PC takes damage and they realize they must move more quickly to get out of here before they're overcome.
The party regroups and Stig checks the door for traps. There are no traps to be found so Nathair inserts the key into the lock and turns it. The door opens easily and the party emerges from the room.
The party spent a little over ten minutes in the room and is taking damage from the poison gas.
Comments:
I found two things to be noteworthy here.
First, when a PC investigates something in 1E, they simply find it unless it's well hidden, in which case the DM would secretly roll to see if the PC finds something. This would usually be in cases where there's a false bottom to a drawer or a concealed niche in the wall. Otherwise, the PCs don't need to roll, although it is a common house rule to have the PC roll some sort of check, either Int or Wis.
Second, the gas is much more dangerous in the 1E version because the DM rolls damage every ten minutes rather than per hour. That isn't because of the system per se, but it does reflect the mentality of the 1E designers. This first room would naturally take a lot of time to search, and this is presumably meant to convey to the players that they don't have time to dawdle. Sadly, in my damage rolls, it seems the PCs with the fewest hit points took the most damage. Weyland especially will be in trouble soon at this rate.
As a more minor note, the spellcasters are able to cast the Light spell as a cantrip in 5E, which costs nothing whereas it is a 1st Level spell in 1E, so the PCs who could cast Light are still going to use a torch.
Area 2: The Hall of Thrashing Canes
It's a hallway. I guess.
5E:
The party proceeds slowly with Mikhael leading. They keep their eyes peeled as they move. Mikhael does not notice the pressure plate but Stone does (by making a successful Perception check) before stepping on it, and stops Mikhael from going any further. Mikhael gingerly steps back from the plate and asks Stig to see if he can disable it using his thieves' tools. Stig succeeds in disabling the trap and the party moves forward to the double doors at the end of the corridor.
The party spent six minutes in the corridor and is not yet feeling the effects of the gas.
1E:
The party proceeds slowly with Mikhael leading. They keep their eyes peeled as they move but cannot afford to spend too much time doing a careful search as the gas is already affecting them. Fortunately, the trap fails to trigger when they walk over the pressure plate and they make it to the end of the corridor after a minute and a half.
Comments:
Checking for traps in 1E takes a long time, as much as a full minute on something like a door. Indeed the party cannot afford to spend that kind of time checking every space as they move through the dungeon. Fortunately, the designer of the module throws the PCs a bone here and the trap only has a 1/3 chance of triggering. The party was lucky this time. The trap doesn't really do much in the way of damage, but it will block the passage after it's tripped, and that would be a very serious problem if any PCs are stuck behind it.
The 5E version of the trap always works once enough weight is on it, and does more significant damage. It also explicitly describes what has to be done to disable the trap and how long it takes.
So far, the real determining factor is the rate at which the poison gas damages the PCs.
Area 3: Roost of the Conch
5E:
The party moves into the large room, noticing the large, crayfish-like creature near the boulder. It has not attacked, and Mikhael slowly steps toward it, hands open. The creature starts talking rapidly in a language none of the party recognizes. Its intentions are clear, however, as it raises its claws in the air as a clear threat. Time is of the essence and Mikhael would rather not spend the time in combat, so he casts Speak With Animals and is able to communicate directly with the beast. Mikhael makes a Persuasion roll and successfully convinces the creature that the party is not a threat. After a few moments, Mikhael nods. "We may not approach it, but it will allow us to go around if we keep our distance."
The party stays close to the wall, working its way to the right until it reaches the door. It is unlocked, and they move through.
The party has now spent 9 minutes in the dungeon. No gas effects yet.
1E:
The party moves into the large room, noticing the large, crayfish-like creature near the boulder. It has not attacked, and Mikhael slowly steps toward it, hands open. The creature starts talking rapidly in a language none of the party recognizes. Its intentions are clear, however, as it raises its claws in the air as a clear threat. Time is of the essence and Mikhael cannot afford to spend too much time with this creature. Nathair steps forward and casts Speak With Animals and is able to communicate directly with the beast. She isn't very charismatic so she acts only as an interpreter for Mikhael. The Reaction Roll for the creature succeeds and Mikhael successfully convinces the creature that the party is not a threat. Nathair explains to the party "We may not approach it, but it will allow us to go around if we keep our distance."
The party stays close to the wall, working its way to the right until it reaches the door. It is unlocked, and they move through.
The party has now spent 14 minutes in the dungeon. No additional gas effects yet.
Comments:
We're now starting to see more of an impact between editions. Although the encounters were both successfully handled through bargaining, it cost the 5E party nothing, as Mikhael's ability to cast Speak With Animals is an Oath Spell. In 1E, Mikhael is not yet high enough level to cast spells at all, and so it fell to Nathair to use her 2nd Level Cleric version of Speak With Animals. She only gets five Cleric spells of second level per day, so the cost is significant.
Area 5: Tomb Stone and Wet Lime
All left turns. It's like NASCAR.
5E:
The party moves carefully down the corridor, noticing an exposed seam in the wall. A way out, perhaps? Mikhael runs his metal gauntlet over the seam and it appears the stone can be moved. He presses against the stone but it won't budge. He calls for assistance from the others and is joined by Stone and Stig. Together they push, but Stig recoils in pain as the acidic lime causes a burn for 1 HP of acid damage. He quickly wipes his hand off on his breeches. Mikhail and Stone aren't affected because of their metal gauntlets. Mikhael offers his shield to Stig and he uses it to push against the stone. After a minute, the stone plug has been pushed far enough to allow the party to enter the room beyond.
Eleven minutes in. No gas effect yet.
1E:
The party moves carefully down the corridor, noticing an exposed seam in the wall. A way out, perhaps? Mikhael runs his metal gauntlet over the seam and it appears the stone can be moved. He presses against the stone but it won't budge. He calls for assistance from the others and is joined by Stone and Stig. Together they push, but Stig recoils in pain as the acidic lime causes a burn for 1 HP of acid damage. He quickly wipes his hand off on his breeches. Mikhail and Stone aren't affected because of their metal gauntlets. Mikhael offers his shield to Stig and he uses it to push against the stone. After nine minutes, the stone plug has been pushed far enough to allow the party to topple it forward and enter the room beyond. As the PCs are pushing the stone, they feel more pain and illness as the gas causes them more damage.
The party has now spent 27 minutes in the dungeon. The gas has had additional effects.
Comments:
The 5E version of the module is much more generous with the time it takes to push the block. It takes between 7 - 10 rounds to do it, and that almost guarantees another bout of poison gas damage. It's also worth mentioning that in the 1E version, prolonged contact with the acidic lime can cause effects that could hamper the PC's fighting abilities for DAYS.
The poison gas has hit Stig the hardest, and he's going to need healing soon.
Area 7: The Sepulcher of Tloques-Popolocas
Sometimes you can just tell a room in a dungeon is
going to be a headache.
5E:
The party steps forward into what appears to be a foyer. Two massive bronze doors with glyphs on them stand in their way. Morton casts Comprehend Languages and is able to read the glyphs... a warning that this is the tomb of Tloques-Popolocas. The tomb of a powerful being is a red flag for traps, so Weyland checks the door carefully for them. He succeeds, realizing that if they can pick the lock, the trap will not be triggered when they open the doors. Stig gets out his thieves' tools and gets to work. He barely succeeds but with his special proficiency in thieves' tools, it got him over the line. He pushes the doors open.
The chamber within is beyond ancient, and more glyphs appear on the floor, the monument, and everywhere. Morton's spell is still active and he can read the glyphs. "More warnings from whoever is in that box," he says, indicating the sarcophagus. As he reads the glyphs on the sarcophagus, a magical trap is triggered. Mikhael, Nathair, Stig, and Morton have now been cursed. There is evil here, and Mikhail decides it is their duty to destroy it, even though it will take precious time. Weyland, working together with Morton reads the glyphs, and Weyland examining a set of numbers on the base of the large block, realize that the glyphs that indicate Tloques' date of death are the combination to press the numbers. Weyland does so, and the lid slides open a few inches. Mikhail and Stone climb to the top of the pedestal and slide the lid open.
Inside the sarcophagus is a dessicated corpse along with several items that appear to be valuable. Weyland examines the inside for possible traps but finds none. He then reaches for the ornate mask. Stig greedily sprints up the side and starts taking treasure as well. Nathair gets in on it as well, interested in the pendant the corpse wears, hoping it might be an item of religious importance. As soon as she pulls it out, however, the corpse begins to stir as flesh and bone begin to knit. Nathair and Weyland move to replace the items but Mikhael and Stig stop them. Mikhael feels a duty to destroy this evil, and Stig lusts for the treasure.
The corpse continues to incorporate, and the party prepares for battle. Stig grabs another item from the sarcophagus before preparing. Stone and Mikhael attack immediately, hoping to destroy the creature before it can fully revive. Stone moves more quickly, and with two strikes from his warhammer, he crushes the creature to true death. Certain that their enemy is destroyed, the party loots the sarcophagus and Stone takes the axe embedded in the wall, and departs.
The party is twenty-four minutes in the dungeon, and the gas is not yet at dangerous levels in their systems.
In this encounter, the party earned 1,800 XP.
1E:
The party steps forward into what appears to be a foyer. Two massive bronze doors with glyphs on them stand in their way. Stig attempts to read the language but is unsuccessful. Morton is also unable to make anything of the text. Weyland casts Comprehend Languages and is able to read the glyphs... a warning that this is the tomb of Tloques-Popolocas. The tomb of a powerful being is a red flag for traps, so Stig checks the door carefully for them. He succeeds, realizing that if they can pick the lock, the trap will not be triggered when they open the doors. Stig gets out his thieves' tools and gets to work. He succeeds and pushes the doors open.
The chamber within is beyond ancient, and more glyphs appear on the floor, the monument, and everywhere. Weyland's spell is still active and he can read the glyphs. "More warnings from whoever is in that box," he says, indicating the sarcophagus.
There is evil here, and Mikhail decides it is their duty to destroy it, even though it will take precious time. Weyland reads the glyphs and examines a set of numbers on the base of the large block, realizing that the glyphs that indicate Tloques' date of death are the combination to press the numbers. Weyland does so, and the lid slides open a few inches. Mikhail and Stone climb to the top of the pedestal and slide the lid open.
Inside the sarcophagus is a dessicated corpse along with several items that appear to be valuable. Stig examines the inside for possible traps but finds none. He then reaches for the ornate mask. Stig greedily starts taking treasure as well. Nathair gets in on it as well, interested in the pendant the corpse wears, hoping it might be an item of religious importance. As soon as she pulls it out, however, the corpse begins to stir as flesh and bone begin to knit. Nathair and Weyland move to replace the items but Mikhael and Stig stop them. Mikhael feels a duty to destroy this evil, and Stig lusts for the treasure.
The gas continues to harm the party.
The corpse continues to incorporate, and the party prepares for battle. Stig grabs another item from the sarcophagus before preparing. Stone and Mikhael attack immediately, hoping to destroy the creature before it can fully revive. Stone moves more quickly, and with a strike from his warhammer, he crushes the creature nearly to death. Mikhael swings his weapon and finishes the creature off before it can recover any further. Certain that their enemy is destroyed, the party loots the sarcophagus and Stone takes the axe embedded in the wall.
Weyland is severely injured from the gas, and Nathair casts Cure Light Wounds on him. He heals somewhat, but is still far from recovered.
The party is thirty-seven minutes in the dungeon, and the gas is becoming a severe problem.
In this encounter, the party earned 2,000 XP and 2,596 gp worth of treasure not counting the magic items.
Comments:
The creature in this room is a modified Vampire Spawn in 5E and a full-blown Vampire in 1E. In either case, it is in a severely vulnerable state as it begins to reform. Notice that Stone has two attacks at level 5 in 5E and was able to dispatch it quickly by himself while Mikhael had to take the second strike in 1E.
There have also been additional spells used, including one of Nathair's Cure Light Wounds in 1E to keep Weyland alive, who was injured severely enough that the next time the gas affects him, he could have been killed.
The curse that was triggered by reading the glyphs in the 5E encounter will result in a servant of Tloques visiting the PC seeking revenge. No such trap exists in the 1E module because every PC will have this curse regardless, just for breaking into the tomb.
The axe Stone took is cursed. In 5E it is a Berserker axe and a cursed axe +2 in 5E that does less damage against CE creatures and teleports into the owner's hand when encountering LG ones. In both cases the axe has additional special properties owing to spell scrolls embedded in the handle.
I did not bother totaling up the gp value of the treasure found for the 5E encounter but I did for the 1E. The reason is that in 1E AD&D, treasure counts toward XP at the rate of 1gp = 1XP in most cases.
Note that XP for treasure is not actually awarded until the items are sold.
It's also worth noting that I curtailed the XP for Tloques in 1E because in that version of the game, the DM is expected to calculate XP based on the creature's stats but also the overall difficulty of the encounter. The PCs easily slew the awakening vampire and so I cut the XP down drastically. The typical value for a Vampire as calculated in 1E is about 8,000XP.
Impressions so far:
I have to admit that 5E is closer in difficulty to 1E than I was expecting overall. That said, we can see that the 1E version is beginning to take its toll. The 1E party has had to expend more party resources and is taking substantially more damage from the poison gas than in 5E, in which the party has not yet taken any.
The real difference is that 1E is much more DM-oriented in terms of handling things like skills and time while 5E is much more structured. This can be a good thing if the DM would otherwise be inconsistent.
I suspect the difficulty differences will become more evident as we go, but for now, there is no clear "winner."
